and, romney-ryan on the move. bill: the way mike murphy explains it, republican strategist on "meet the press" sunday morning, democrats could be desperate. do you agree with that? >> they're certainly very worried. the degree of concern they had over the president's performance in denver is much deeper than we even thought. they're very, very worried about that. they're looking for joe biden to come out and deliver a lot of zingers and attack lines that barack obama didn't. this is the second chance in the presidential debate. there is not another actual presidential debate until october 16th. bill: listen how paul ryan explains how he sees vice president joe biden. >> he is fast on the cuff. he is a witty guy. he knows who he is and been doing this for 40 years. so, you're not going to rattle joe biden. joe biden has been on the national stage. he ran for president twice as sitting vice president. bill: probably a smart strategy. what he is saying there, be careful and do not underestimate the vice president, de